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meditation
July 2008 
Actual "Now", Experiential "Now", and the "Zone".
Posted on Apr 2nd, 2006
by 
Bill
Bill
We've been having discussions about the "ego" and the "now" in the Ego Hunting Pod, and I ended up trying to make a diagram to illustrate an series of concepts that I've been using to think about the "Now" experience. I thought I would post them in this blog and see if they can stimulate more discussion. This text might be a little disjointed, because it's copied and reassembled...
Well, I don't know if this is true for everyone, but as far as I can tell, my ego, or rather, the part of my mind I call my ego, can't function in the now. I'm not sure it can even enter it.
I experience my ego as following behind the now, trying to think of something to say.
I sometimes think people mistake the 'now' state for the 'flow' or 'zone' state that people talk about with sports and creativity. I'm not sure those two states are the same.
I say that because the more in the 'now' I am, the less I seem to want to do or communicate or create.
Anyway, to explain it, this is the model I have of the "Now".
The actual, physical now is forever unreachable.
It takes a certain fraction of a second for the brain and mind to process experience and display it as sensation. We can guess that on the average that short interval of time is about 1/30th of a second or less. Why? Because of movies. A movie is actually a series of still images, but when they are played at 30 frames a second or faster, we experience them as a seamless whole. There is reason to believe that we can actually process sensation in milliseconds, thousandths of a second, but we rarely do so.
So, the "experiential now" is as close as we can get, in these human bodies, to the actual "Now" of the physical universe. That happens when we turn off as much interpretive thought as possible, and are immediately and directly in our bodies, experiencing the universe as closely as our eyes, ears, skin, and other sensory organs are capable.
(I like that state a lot, but, like I suggested earlier, the deeper I am in it the less I'm interested in acting or communicating. The experience itself is so rich, and frankly pleasurable, that I'm totally satisfied just absorbing sensation.)
I have been thinking that the "Zone" is _just a little distance_ behind the experiential now. Close enough to direct sensation to allow maximum responsiveness, but there is still room for certain parts of the mind to make plans, project into the future, and make strategic and tactical choices. (A tennis player in the "Zone" still is able to plan how to make the next shot and position themselves in the optimum spot on the court, for example.)
And the ordinary ego spends it's time some distance behind the experiential now.
What's your experience of the 'now' state?
Access: Public
Bill,
Movies (i.e., film movies) actually have traditionally been shot at 24 or 25 frames per second. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video. Video is either 30 f.p.s., or, if it is progressive video, is actually 60 f.p.s (which makes it look “hyper-real”).
But aside from this, I’m not sure how you can move from the fact that the brain will at a certain point blur information into a kind of proof that we see/feel/experience things some time after they actually happen. A better argument, it would seem to me, would look to the speed that nerve impulses travel through the body. (It always seems to me that my cats (when they are young and awake) are able to see and move much faster than any human being can, in part because their less complex and physically smaller systems allow for faster nerve transmission.)
In any case, your model is an interesting one. When someone like Eckhart Tolle talks about “being in the now,” or Ram Das talks about “be here now,” they never really say which “now” they mean, do they?
As for “flow” or the “zone” happening in-between the limit of the experiential now and the ordinary domain of the ago, that’s an interesting idea, but I think your definition of flow might be too narrow here. If it’s true that there is an experiential now which is by definition after the now of physics, then I would think that for some action-oriented individuals the states known as “flow” or being “in the zone” would not only take it right up to the limit of the experiential now, but might, in effect, take it beyond it into the actual now of physics through various types of non-time-bound psi phenomena.
I’m not sure how you can move from the fact that the brain will at a certain point blur information into a kind of proof that we see/feel/experience things some time after they actually happen. A better argument, it would seem to me, would look to the speed that nerve impulses travel through the body.
That's why I said a millisecond to a thirtieth of a second - and both figures are approximations.
Also, we are not talking about nerve reaction speed alone, there is a huge amount of processing that happens between the immediate sensory input and the final product, our vision of the world, in which we recognize objects, people, and relationships. It's the processing time that seems to take approximately 1/30th second.
When you enter deeply into the “now” state, you strip away layer after layer of that interpretive processing, and you are eventually left with raw buzzing and flashing sensation. Very nice stuff, but you better be careful trying to walk.
And, there is also a difference between the speed of sensation for different senses as well as for different states of mind - the sense of balance or certain senses of touch seem faster than the construction of the large three dimensional representation of the sense of vision and hearing - vision and hearing require a lot more 'interpretation' than phyical reaction to changes of balance or a pin prick.
Using a figure like 1/30 a second, and using the example of how we process movies, is just a useful way to communicate the idea that there is a quite small envelope of time, and the processing of our nervous system, between us and the actual “now”.
The actual time could be smaller than a millisecond, that will eventually be measured by somebody, but I'm not in a position to measure it.
—
then I would think that for some action-oriented individuals the states known as “flow” or being “in the zone” would not only take it right up to the limit of the experiential now, but might, in effect, take it beyond it into the actual now of physics through various types of non-time-bound psi phenomena.
Anything is possible, I suppose, but if this is happening it's a quite weak and unreliable effect.
I suppose there could be some class of persons who are able to do such things. But if there were, what should be done about it?
And why haven't these people already taken over the world? What keeps them from excelling so completely that they naturally dominate society?
Or are you suggesting that has already happening? Some sort of “divine right of psychic kings”, a secret cabal of psi masters in charge of business, politics, and tennis?
What force could stop psi masters in the zone?
LOL! I think it is going on, but I think it is unreliable. I think that as soon as “ordinary ego” gets in the way we get short-circuited out of the state. But to a certain degree, there are those – and maybe, indeed, they tend to be among the most successful of people – who are able to read others emotions, physically and emotionally interact, and do other things in ways that are very very close to “real time” “Now time.”
You are amazing Bill. Great sutff!! You have set me thinking along new lines!!
“my ego, or rather, the part of my mind I call my ego, can't function in the now. I'm not sure it can even enter it.
I experience my ego as following behind the now, trying to think of something to say.” So very true.
The actual Now is a huge void, or rather an absolute Void - away from your waking consciousness. The problem here is that you cannot bring back anything from the Void to the Waking Consciousness. Neither sensations nor impressions. You are always back to where you are. Then you can only talk in parables and symbols. The Now is beyond the known.
The Now is unknowable?
Hey, I dig the diagram, Bill! Definitely a great way to sum up the issue-at-hand.
I've always thought of the whole “flow” stuff as heavily based in this discussion! The most basic 'flow' that I can think of would be something where a person's understanding is so complete, they can effectively predict actions to some point out in the future.
So, if somebody was “predicting” the environment's actions even that 1/30th of a second out, would they be effectly functioning in the “real now” though they weren't quite experiencing it?
Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharin' this outside of that pod :)
It would seem, under this model, that they would be functioning in the “realest” sense possible *if* you define “real” as meaning what makes the most difference, or has the most leverage, in the actual way that Time goes down.
Jordan, I tend to think that we crave that state, usually unconsciously I would guess, because it's a magnificent animal awareness at it's finest, and as a culture we've been repressing it for the past few hundred years.
But, on the other hand, being a a real deep visionary trance is pretty far removed from the 'now' - you become totally in the mind, about as far outside of time as humans usually get. But that state is really interesting and fun too, and pretty danged 'real'.
What I'm suggesting is that the realest human in the one that can do all these kinds of states, move back and forth between them at will, knowing that is what they are doing - bending their relationship to time by focusing their physical and mental attention.
But I take your meaning, that the humans closest to the now, stripped down of mental/social processing, are more 'there' than humans in more ordinary states.
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I agree with your model.
Now is the Quality Event - to use Robert Pirsig's term. It is the occurence on the physical/ physics level of things. our brain/body is taking in all that sensory data and processing it on the bio-chemical level -
Then all the next level brain processing takes places - some fraction of a moment time delay going on there as you point out.
Then all that brain processing sends it up to our conscious awareness.. this is when we first get the experience sensation. Then we start to process that experience and put it into thought/words. The final stage.
The experience stage is larger than the the word stage.
Just some thoughts.
I recall reading an account of a study that measured the responses of experienced Zen meditators while they were meditating to external stimuli by monitoring… brainwaves (?) The stimuli would elicit a response, but the wave pattern would almost immediately revert to the aware alertness stage (Alpha?) rather than be ‘hooked’ by the stimuli.
It seems that the point awareness in your model can be also rest upon the now of the senses.
Strongly agree with GreyRaven: the verbal level of our consciousness is only a thin surface covering, like lillypads on the surface of a pond.
Kenneth
all these other, trans-verbal and pre-verbal, levels are real, but there is also a level on which “all we are is words,” and on that level – which is the level we’re at here as you read these words – then we have to be as damned good with words as we possibly can
…which is even more true if you believe that words aren’t just “accidents” or even “human agreements” but actually creative principles or at least tetra-arising magnificators of coincidence into reality…
The words we use aren't “accidents” they are definately our enculturaled set of metaphors that we have learned/studied/accepted. We are shaped by and we shape ideas/words.
Hi Bill
I'm not really into measuring things but i have had some interesting experiences of flow and the now. I am an artist and I could go into a state of flow at will. In this state I could simply paint without thinking about the next move; it just happened automatically. Nevertheless I was aware of what I was doing and thinking somewhat. One day I moved spontaneously into what you might call supperflow. I was drawing without being aware of what I was doing. I was still aware of my body but not what was happening on the paper. It's hard to describe. I did not feel entirely comfortable with this method of working so periodically I'd force myself to stand back and plan what to do next, but as soon as the crayon hit the paper I no longer knew what I was doing. This went on for about a week and then as I sat on the floor particles of silver white light entered the top of my head, went down to my heart and out my hands. Another time I was eating an ice cream cone with a friend and all at once the world became very bright and sharply focused. I “saw” everything existing from its beginning to its end simulateously. Hard to describe. There was no time only the Now.
These experiences and others that I've had are probably altered states of conciousness. Now I've found something different which is appreciating what is. This is a wonderful place to be. It is so interesting and as you say there's no urge to create or do anything. I am simply enjoying BEing.